I'll say this...

Bund debates are a finite skill.

I can only assume that I have been away from a good debate long enough to have let my questionable abilities fall to unquestionable depths.  You pointed this out in a gentlemanly manner, and both apologize for the lapse and thank you for the consideration.

The Guardian estimated the document count for the Snowden leaks was 200,000... and some recent estimates put it at over a million.  No one knows what's on those documents yet, not even Snowden.  If the time comes where irrefutable proof can be presented that he did, indeed, KNOW what he was leaking in each and every one of those documents... then I'll believe what he did was "wrong".  Treason, well... you'll have to prove to me (and a judge) that he aided and conspired with our enemies mens rea, to go alongside the actus reus that the leak itself represents.  As I have said, the leak was illegal.  No question there.  So was taking up arms against the King in 1775 for all 30,000+ "patriots" that fought for their liberties and freedoms from Britain.  I don't know what his "intentions" were in collecting and then releasing these documents.  I don't know how the information is formatted or bundled up... perhaps the foreign stuff was mixed in with the domestic... I don't know.  Neither does anyone else, that I am aware of... except Snowden perhaps.

I keep trying to imagine what I would have done, if I were in his position.  There is no material gain for him in the leak... and nothing about what he knew would happen could equal anything but fear and turmoil as every single agency of law enforcement in the United States was about to start hunting him.  He lost his livelihood, nearly all contact with his family, any and all freedoms and liberties left to us as US citizens... so where are the upsides?

Now, I imagine that I know about the domestic info grab, and that I have no legitimate avenue to bring my obvious concerns to higher authorities, since it is the higher authorities that are responsible for the domestic info grab.  By releasing the info to the press as a "whistleblower", I am subjecting myself to life "on the lamb".  Not fun and exciting like in the movies... just miserable existence with no possibility of parole.  Do I release the info?  Do I release the info if there is a certainty that some amount of classified foreign intelligence capabilities will also be compromised?  Not stopped.  Not ended.  Just compromised... hindered.  Perhaps seriously, but certainly not completely.

I'd like to think I would.  I think it is the right thing to do.  After all, isn't that the sort of "compromise" that the Patriot Act was all about?  The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?

Admittedly, I don't KNOW that this is what Snowden did at all.  Perhaps he had visions of making millions and millions of dollars by selling the "made-for-TV-movie" rights to his story... even getting someone like Hugh Jackman to portray him in the movie.  Chicks dig millions of dollars and Hugh Jackman... so perhaps that was his motivation.  I simply don't know.

If our foreign intelligence services can be so completely crippled by the illegal release of information, even on this scale... then perhaps THAT is another facet of "failure" in government that needs to be addressed.  However, I really don't think our abilities and capabilities have been as compromised as we are being led to believe.  If they were, then the fallout would have been far more immediate and far reaching than it was.  I can't quantify that statement any better... call it a "gut reaction" and let it go.

Finally, I am inclined to admit that F Ryan is right... I am bitter.  I seem to have reached a point where I don't care who the political figure in question is... Democrat or Republican... they are simply different faces on the same coin: worthless.  In fact, to give real light to just where I am in my "political" life, I am studying quite diligently the "pros and cons" of not exercising my franchise rights at all.  But that's for a different post.