I am shocked...

Damn near driven speechless, in fact.

A few tangents first, before my main point:

1)  Afghanistan.  You are correct, I did not oppose the invasion of Afghanistan in 2001.  As you said, I was a younger, far more naive man then.  A regime that openly assisted the people that attacked the US on 9/11/01 was a clear and present danger in my eyes.

However, as you so eloquently pointed out, that was a flawed position to take.  No end-game strategy was ever presented to the "People" of these United States, no clear and well-defined "grand strategy" was ever laid out to "We the People" in regards to how the conflict would be conducted, and what the conditions for a declared "victory" wold be.

How many nations, before and after 9/11, were attacked by terrorists (Islamic or otherwise) and have NOT invaded and toppled recognized sovereign national governments?  ALL of them, I'd say.  We did it to two of them, damn near unilaterally.

2)  My greatest degree of utter surprise stems from F Ryan's confession that he "doesn't know" what the right thing to do would or should have been.  This leads me to think that he has come to the conclusion that what was done was not the right course of action to be taken.  Declaring that the moon was made of green cheese, and that he routinely goes there to get some for his pizza night with the boys could hardly have raised my eyebrows any higher.

However... it shocks me even more that we are in nearly total agreement.

I wasn't right in 2001, and I wasn't right in 2003... at least not for the right reasons.  Our government should be operating under the limitations of the powers enumerated within the Constitution, but it is not.  It hasn't for quite some time.  It is only in the last year that I have really begun to see just how far outside the Constitution this government of ours is operating.

I don't care what letter is behind the politician's name at the booth, no one running in any national election, for any office, is going to do one single thing that will reduce the size and scope of government.  No one one the Republican side, and no one on the Democrat side.  No one.  Not one.

That said, I have taken to thinking that the best course of action for me (I advocate this for no one else, mind you) is that I participate in the Federal government system at the absolute minimum level of participation allowed to me by law.

I'll pay my taxes.  I'll abide by Federal laws, as long as they do not contradict my conscience or my morals.  I will do nothing else.  I will not vote in the coming Federal elections in November.  I will not support, in my words, deeds or personal wealth, anyone running for Federal office.  I will limit my franchise participation to the State, County and Municipal level, where I feel I can actually benefit from and actually measure the impact of my vote and voice.  That is what I feel I can do, so that is what I will do.

Now, to my final main point:

"So then what happens? Our enemy is not going away and unlike us they are fully committed.
I'll tell you what happens - we lose, turn the page."

Here, we are in complete disagreement.

The mess we see the region in right now cannot be blamed on anything if it cannot be blamed on the manner in which we, the United States of America, have conducted ourselves and our foreign policy over the last 70 years.  Of course ethnic, religious and demographic facets must be factored in... but if US national security is at risk in the region (and from the region), then it is our policies and actions that have brought it about.

Doing nothing, especially now, is the only course of corrective action that I can see working at all.  Continuing our present course, we do nothing with any certainty EXCEPT create another generation of men and women who blame the US (and by extension every American citizen, involved or not) for every single woe in their lives.  Doing nothing forces the region, and the people of Iraq and Afghanistan in particular, to take responsibility for their own needs.  That is what the men who signed the Declaration of Independence did... they accepted responsibility for their respective States' needs, solely and totally, because no one else should or could be responsible for those needs.  We chose the path of self determination, and it has worked here.  France chose the path of self determination.  The UK, Germany, Japan, the West in general... we found our feet on that path and have stayed there since.  You cannot force someone onto that path.

By doing nothing, we can secure our own freedoms (from ourselves, it seems... what greater threat is there right now to our personal freedoms than our own government?) and voluntarily assist those that ask us, if the needs should arise.  We can provide the example that we once were, and can be again... that individual freedom creates a free country.  The country does not create individual freedom.  If we are not a nation of free men and women, then we are no more fit to dictate policy or governmental structure than Saddam Hussein was... and I am not picking an extreme here simply for hyperbole sake.  Saddam dictated to 25 million people how they would conduct their lives, and we came and removed him, and then dictated how and when they would pick a replacement.  In a fundamental manner... where is the difference?

We do not lose... we win.  We steal not only the means by which radicals and terrorists justify their butchery... we remove a HUGE portion of the means by which they produce their terror and butchery.  By removing the onus we have placed on ourselves as the "protector of the world" we can once again focus on making this nation a place were everyone wants to be.  A place where we feed, clothe, employ, house, educate, and incorporate any and all that are willing to come and participate in the great American dream.  We once again become the great "melting pot" that incorporates each and every free individual into a functional, safe and prosperous society.

We are no more safe NOW then we were on 9/10/01.  I really and truly feel that is true.  Saddam cannot attack us.  bin Laden cannot attack us.  They are dead and gone.  We are NOT safer because of that, though.

Even worse, I fear we are less free than we were on 9/10/01... and what is more tragic than that?  How do we justify the deaths of so many thousands of Americans in both theaters and around the world, when no honest and rational American can say we are even as "free" now as we were fourteen years ago?

THAT is a tragedy... and a loss... but it isn't because of terror or radical extremism.  That is our own fault.